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Larry Berman CFA, CMT, CTAA Comment -- General Comments From an ExpertA CommentaryCOMMENTDec 16, 2024

Educational Segment.

Outlook for 2025

The "fearless" forecast. It's fun, and everybody does them, but nobody really knows. 

The Fed is meeting this week. A couple of months ago in their Summary of Economic Projections, they thought US GDP would be 2% this year. It's 2.7%. They thought the unemployment rate would be 4.4%. It's 4.2%. Inflation was supposed to be 2.6%, and it's 2.9%. There's no reason they should cut rates this week, yet they are going to. His point is that forecasting's very hard.

A year ago, when we looked at the Wall Street consensus for earnings, $233 was the number. When we get to January and earnings for Q4, looks to be around $241-242. So they underestimated earnings  growth. But the median number for the S&P was expected to be 4850, with the most bullish strategists pegging it at 5200. Yet here we are today with it pushing on 6100. Even the most bullish bulls were not even close last year.

He was overly cautious last year. He figured the chances of a recession were really high. Usually when there's big consensus in one direction, something else is going to happen. He was right, but in the wrong direction. 

Let's turn to next year. Wall Street consensus for earnings at end of 2025 is $267. So a 12% increase from where we are today. Average S&P forecast for 2025 is around 6500. Bulls see the S&P ending at 6700-7100 next year. This year there's a lot more optimism, and the markets are significantly more expensive. Last year was expensive at 20x; this year is 25x and expectations are for it to maintain that premium.

Again, he thinks something different will happen in 2025. If you look at history over the past 100 years, no one really knows what's going to happen after back-to-back years of stellar performance. He suspects markets will be flat to down a little bit. Given Trump's policies, odds of a recession will be pushed way into the future.

For the bond market, bonds are broken. US treasuries are the benchmark of the world, and YTD they've returned 2%, pretty much a failure. Bonds have done a bit better in Canada with our structurally weak economy; but most of the gain has come in the last month. Don't expect that from Canada going forward. Cash will beat bonds in the next year or two.

On crude oil, he sees us being range-bound for a number of years. Everything has been positive for oil and gas, yet still can't hold above $100. If we go into a downturn/recession, can expect a dip below $60.

Gold had a breakout. He's expecting sideways consolidation for the next year or two, not acceleration above the top of the trend channel.

CAD -- above $1.40-1.42, long-term owners of USD should hedge that. You want to buy Canadian dollars on international markets, especially if we get a change in government next year. Canada is a buy.

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COMMENT
Markets.

We're seeing the typical script. In August, his team was warning clients to be careful. Usually you have a swoon in September, which typically lasts until October 11-14. Then we usually go into a seasonal rally and a Santa Claus rally to end the year.

It's playing by the book. But there's no ignoring the fact that there's a 90% chance that the Fed will raise interest rates next week. That's a serious headwind. With 10-year bond yields cross 5%, and oil getting to critical levels ~$100, investors have to start taking notice. You have to wonder if this is just the typical swoon, part of the script? Or is it the start of something more concerning?

COMMENT
Asset allocation right now.

For a typical client portfolio (70/30) he's been pretty aggressive, even up to 90% equity. His team believes we're in a really good, unfolding bull market. 

When you go into periods like this, you want to have respect for your asset allocation. When things start to turn, they don't turn right away. By the time you get 4 data points, you already have a market that's down quite a bit.

He doesn't think we're going there. This is a buying opportunity. When they add up the sum of the parts of the market (they cover 300 companies), the earnings power we're seeing is unbelievable. It really is. Growth rates are so much higher -- the kind you see coming out of a recession, but we're not. We're 4 years into a bull market.

Earnings growth is so good, he thinks we'll be in an elongated cycle. Things can disrupt that, such as Federal Reserve error or oil going to $150. So you have to be somewhat mindful.

COMMENT
Growth slowing?

No, growth rates are very strong. Strong for the rest of this year and for next. They look to start slowing to a more regular pace of 12-14% in 2028. But we'll see. The numbers keep getting ratcheted up. The spending is real. 

We're seeing productivity gains to small caps, which have been rallying and outperforming. They're very interest-sensitive, so should be going the other way. (They are right now because everything is.) But they've done better than big caps. Productivity gains are being felt across the board. 

We're into a really beautiful expansion, and people are still misjudging the upside.

COMMENT
Copper.

What we've seen is just a supply response -- there's just not a lot of copper out there. But we're going to need it for a long time. It's a great play, but it's already reflected in the stocks and they're not as cheap as they were. He owns a bunch of them.

Still likes FCX. Grasberg coming fully online will be very beneficial. Likes HBM, LUN, CS (though higher risk), TECK.B with its Anglo merger. You can own them all, but FCX is probably the best bang for your buck right now.

COMMENT
Utilities in Canada -- interest rates on hold or falling, but utility stocks going down.

In the markets, 1+1 does not always =2.  :)  These things got way too pricey. There are bound to be interest-rate gyrations when the US is going to raise rates 2-3 times. If the US raises rates like this, the BOC will probably have to raise a bit as well (probably not as much). That's what the market thinks.

COMMENT
Tariffs an overhang?

Yes. But you have to take a step back and believe that this is a political game, being done for political reasons. At some point, everyone is going to want to make a deal in the next 6-12 months. This too shall pass.

COMMENT
Markets.

Right now, it's all about the potential for greater inflation from higher oil prices and bond yields moving higher again. Higher bond yields and oil prices put inflation, valuations, and central bank moves back into focus.

That said, equities are still on solid ground at this point driven by the anchor of really solid earnings growth. We haven't seen this type of earnings growth in many years.

COMMENT
Volatility -- ride it out or reposition?

Since the mid-August highs, the S&P is down about 3%. September plus midterm elections could cause volatility to persist for a while. He'd be a proponent of using cash to take advantage of stocks that have dipped in the last little while. Take a look at high-quality names that are only down because the market's down.

COMMENT
Rest of 2026.

Good news is that, historically, the 6-12 months after midterm elections tend to be one of the strongest periods ever on average. Hopefully that's the case once again. He thinks it'll be driven by earnings, continued capex expenditure, continued AI investment, as well as reshoring and nearshoring.

COMMENT
Midterms and volatility.

Historically, you see about a 15% drawdown in years where there's a midterm election. It doesn't mean you'll see that drawdown every single year there's a midterm election. It's just the average.

So far this year we've seen a 9% drawdown. But he could see that the combination of September seasonality with midterms would add a bit more volatility this month. Hard to say. We're down 3% since mid-August. If markets head 5% or even 10% lower, he'd use cash to buy equities.

COMMENT
Tariffs and picking stocks.

Very difficult. His sense is that we'll see an eventual easing of tensions, and things will normalize to a certain extent. But keep them in mind. Does a company have a lot of US exposure? Do they ship a lot to the US? Do they have business in the US?

DOL, for example, doesn't really have business in the US and so they're not really affected by tariffs.

COMMENT
Canadian banks.

Clearly on solid footing. There are concerns about the economy and any impact from tariffs. Many banks are trading at multiples above average, but there may be reasons for that. They have diversified revenue streams.

Broadly, banks have a place in your portfolio. As do strong, big US banks.

COMMENT
Buying on the NYSE vs. CDRs.

Broadly, you're not taking a hit when buying US holdings in US dollars. US dollars will continue to appreciate; if they don't, it's a roundtrip eventually. You want to look at the company itself. 

As always, be diversified by sector and geography. So why not be diversified by currency as well? Important to own in CAD, as well as in USD and international currencies via ADRs.

With CDRs, recognize that the volume of trading will be a bit lower. There could be some slack in the bid/ask. There are costs to owning CDRs, which could be as much as 60 bps.

For him, if he's going to buy a US security, he prefers to buy on the NYSE. His clients have benefited, as the USD has appreciated very well over the years.

COMMENT
Investors moving away from tech.

They're cautious because they're fearful that the ROI on the huge investment (approaching $1B) isn't going to be fulfilled. Thinks that's unlikely, but the markets are rightfully cautious. Not a terrible thing for investors, forcing them to take it a little slower.